tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5120238813914793869.post775994790568457610..comments2023-08-02T02:44:07.417-07:00Comments on Some Mormon Stuff: The Godhead: God or Gods?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00408107024181430641noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5120238813914793869.post-61422965047343088032009-07-17T05:30:32.192-07:002009-07-17T05:30:32.192-07:00See an Improvement Era article by B.H. Roberts, &q...See an Improvement Era article by B.H. Roberts, "<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=MtMRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA754&dq=%22The+Doctrine+of+the+Church+in+Respect+of+the+Godhead%22&client=firefox-a" rel="nofollow">The Doctrine of the Church in Respect of the Godhead</a>," Vol. 1, Aug. 1898, pp. 754-69.<br /><br />And also Gordon B. Hinckley, “<a href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=160&sourceId=356867700817b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD" rel="nofollow">The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost</a>,” Ensign, Nov 1986, p. 49-?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5120238813914793869.post-75198496153498246692009-02-01T08:50:00.000-08:002009-02-01T08:50:00.000-08:00Donald W. Parry wrote, "God says this is his 'work...<A HREF="http://farms.byu.edu/authors/?authorID=44" REL="nofollow">Donald W. Parry</A> wrote, <BR/><BR/>"God says this is his 'work and [his] glory-to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man' (Moses 1:39)-that we return to his presence and with him partake of eternal life and exaltation. Since his glory is intelligence, he shares it with us. Glory is shared intelligence. The temple is certainly the place for that." (<I>Temples of the Ancient World: Ritual and Symbolism</I>, p.33-34)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5120238813914793869.post-73871217234774784252008-11-30T09:21:00.000-08:002008-11-30T09:21:00.000-08:00“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in...“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me” (John 17:21-23).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5120238813914793869.post-92121986259603816222008-11-10T23:12:00.000-08:002008-11-10T23:12:00.000-08:00Roberts also said, "The Latter day Saints believe ...Roberts also said, <BR/><BR/>"The Latter day Saints believe in the unity of the creative and governing force or power of the universe as absolutely as any orthodox Christian sect in the world." (<A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=6lJ8IW6qlAoC&pg=PA137&vq=%22The+Latter-day+Saints+believe+in+the+unity+of+the+creative%22&source=gbs_search_s" REL="nofollow">The Mormon Doctrine of Deity</A>)<BR/><BR/>This was followed up by <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_G._Madsen" REL="nofollow">Truman Madsen</A>. <BR/><BR/>"Therein is revealed that Christ is the complete revelation of the one divine nature, the express image of the Father, and that in nature and attributes the Father is exactly like the Son. It is in that sense that Mormons are (and in another sense are not) monotheists. 'There is only one God-nature.' When intelligences in the universe fulfill the will of God and receive of his fulness, they too become 'harmonized' and participate in that God-nature." (<A HREF="http://byustudies.byu.edu/shop/pdfsrc/19.4Madsen.pdf" REL="nofollow">B.H. Roberts and the Book of Mormon</A>, BYU Studies; see also "Philosophy" in <I>The Truth, the Way, the Life</I>, lxxxii)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5120238813914793869.post-81896291532650275212008-09-23T21:44:00.000-07:002008-09-23T21:44:00.000-07:00B.H. Roberts said, Man being by the very nature of...B.H. Roberts said, <BR/><BR/>Man being by the very nature of him a son of God, and a participant in the Divine Nature—he is properly a part of God, that is, when God is conceived of in a generic sense, as made up of the whole assemblage of divine Intelligences that exist in all heavens and all earths.” (<A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=6lJ8IW6qlAoC&pg=PA166&vq=%22Man+being+by+the+very+nature%22&source=gbs_search_s" REL="nofollow">The Mormon Doctrine of Deity</A>)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5120238813914793869.post-43769382317786601532008-08-19T16:46:00.000-07:002008-08-19T16:46:00.000-07:00Thank you both for your comments. The Father is de...Thank you both for your comments. <BR/><BR/>The Father is definitely in charge, which is why I put him at the top of the diagram. <BR/><BR/>One thing that Mormonism lacks is a well defined theology. The lack of creeds (which I believe is a good thing) and theological tradition means we have to piece together the most coherent statement of beliefs that scripture and tradition allow. I normally don't like theological speculation, but some have said that Mormonism is atheological; which is not far from the truth. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps what Elder M. Russell Ballard said of Christ could also be applied to how we tend to think of the Godhead. We focus on the individuals and less on their unity because "we can personalize that relationship because we ourselves are children, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters." We have a coherent teaching about the Father and Son, and also about the Holy Ghost. There is also a reasonable explanation of how the Godhead is 'one in purpose.' But I have never come across an explanation of our purely monotheistic language, which is why I wrote this post. I wanted to formulate a rough idea of the meaning of that kind of language; just enough to justify our use of that language. <BR/><BR/>I don't know that there is anything to prevent other persons from being included in the social God, except, as you pointed out, "an absence of explicit scripture endorsement," as well as that the scriptures clearly indicate that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost share a special and unique relationship. Perhaps one of the traditional explanations of the Trinity may be employed: for love to exist there must be the one who loves, the one who is loved, and the love itself; an analogue of the Father, Son, and Spirit. Perhaps something like that is why they have a special relationship. <BR/><BR/>I like what Jettboy said, "When any divine personage is invoked, then God the Father is implied as the focal point." Indeed, that lack of a focal point on the Father is one of the weaknesses of the diagram.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00408107024181430641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5120238813914793869.post-74682326238259158812008-08-19T06:36:00.000-07:002008-08-19T06:36:00.000-07:00I think you miss another way that Mormons can thin...I think you miss another way that Mormons can think of "One God," and that is placing God the Father in the center of influence and authoritative power. As the Scriptures say, the Holy Ghost testifies of Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ testifies of God the Father. When any divine personage is invoked, then God the Father is implied as the focal point. <BR/><BR/>Jesus Christ can do nothing save it be by command and will of the Father. Likewise, the Holy Ghost. So, to say "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are One God," is to say God the Father is the Center that holds the whole together. Like strong gravity, when you enter mention of any part of the divine sphere then you end up facing God the Father.Jettboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00300495482595955440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5120238813914793869.post-61847885961253615762008-08-18T21:44:00.000-07:002008-08-18T21:44:00.000-07:00Something that I've wondered about the Mormon idea...Something that I've wondered about the Mormon idea of "God" as illustrated in the second diagram...<BR/><BR/>If you can have three individuals united into one "God" via a sort of divine unity, perichoresis, or whatever you want to call it...<BR/><BR/>What's to stop you from including... say... Mother in Heaven in that same equation - that same unity (other than an absence of explicit scripture endorsement)?<BR/><BR/>Indeed, what's to stop you from including any infinite number of individuals in that one unified "God?"<BR/><BR/>After all, if you can unify three people this way under the "God" heading, why not 300? Why not 3 million?Seth R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13769247769345052208noreply@blogger.com